Whether you are contemplating marriage, or currently married and contemplating divorce, the topic of pre-nups and marital assest are always a concern. Can anybody out there put up some good advice on this?
What’s the real deal with pre-nups? I hear all different things, that they are not legally enforceable, or that they are more trouble than they are worth, and that they only give the woman a heads up that assets are out there for the taking. Also, is it at all practical to legally hide assets where they can’t be touched, like in familiy members names, etc? Somebody on this site used the example of mobsters, who never keep assets in their name, but lead pretty comfortable lives. Is that practical for the general population? Certain assets could never be hidden, I would think. Pensions? 401K’s? These are important questions that we need answers to.
Are there any lawyers out there who actually have a rep for actually winning cases favoring men? Seems no matter what the actual circumstances of a marriage, the woman makes out and the man pays. My wife was wrong every step of the way, nasty, verbally abusive, unfaithful, the whole bit. Truth is, getting out was worth whatever it took, but in a world of fairness, I shouldn’t lose money over any settlement, given the circumstances. Instead, she kept the house, and I lost a ton of equity, as well as lawyers fees and the other related expenses. I guess these judges traded their balls for a seat on the bench. Do these judges ever get divorced? And if they do, what kind of settlements do they obtain? Does the old boys network kick in and protect their interest, or do they get their heads handed to them like the rest of us? Curious to hear what other people have to say, and their experiences.
Is a pre-nup enforceable regardless how long the marriage lasts. For instance if you sign a pre-nup stipulating all assets brought into the marriage and everything earned during the marriage are not joint, and you remain married 20 years,is the pre-nup still enforceable. I was badly burnt once and don’t want to have it happen again. It seems to me the woman is entitled to a larger percentage of the overall assets as the length of the marriage increases even if a pre-nup is in existence. Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me.
Great, great site. Been looking through some of the articles and content, funny stuff. You guys could probably get a lawyer to come on here and give professional divorce advice. A lot of good anecdotal stories on here, but people have to be careful of taking other’s experiences and applying it to their own situation. But some of these stories are great. Good to know other people are going through the same crap you are.
Guy’s, be VERY careful before trying to be tricky, or just trying to outsmart the system in general. Lawyers and judges have seen any bright idea you can think of, and are a lot more experienced in this than you. Speak to a lawyer, and any friends who got divorced, and be guided by their experiences. From experience, I can say that anger and frustration can lead you to make rash decisions, and hurting her might seem like a higher priority than making a better deal for yourself. But the feeling of revenge fades pretty quickly, and ultimately dissolving a marriage is a business deal, albeit one packed with conflicting emotions. Even if you didn’t want the divorce, you owe it to yourself to make the best deal possible for yourself. If you were buying or selling a business or piece of property, you wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) let emotions impact your decisions. It might take all the self-discipline you can muster, but treat this the same. Pride tastes like $#!+ when you have to swallow it, but it goes away soon enough. Make the best deal for YOU, remember, living well is the best revenge.
If you don't have a prenup, and you're having marital difficulites, try to see the split coming way off, and see if you can start moving assets legally. Put things in the name of other family members or trusted friends. (Make sure their marriages are stable first…lol). Or start a corporation with family members, and put assets in there if you can. Not always that easy, but a little forethought may really save you the bucks later.
Seems to me the best way to do things is either a pre-nup, or just put all your assets into some corporation or family trust before you ever get married. Keep your wifes name off everything after your married, if possible. But let’s face it, none of us ever have that much foresight when we’re young. Hopefully young people are reading this site too, and learning from the experience of the people who have lived it.
Ah, divorce tricks. Think thats a course they teach at law school? Seems like half the scheming that goes on in divorce cases are actually instigated by the lawyers, who lick their chops over this stuff. The bigger mess it is, the more billable hours it will take to clean it up.
Men, if you’re even thinking that your marriage is in trouble, start thinking clearly right away. Drop all the emotional baggage, and figure out what you have to do to preserve your assets. If you can legally and safely transfer some of them to a trusted family member, do it. Some things are tough to hide, like homes, pension plans, and the like. But other things can be fairly easily given away or “sold”. Got a boat? “Sell” it to your brother in law. You can still take it out on the weekends, but get it out of your name. Stocks or other investments? Start selling them off quietly, then “spend” the proceeds on seemingly legit things. In reality, have a trusted family member or friend set up another trading account, and re-invest. Once the dust clears, you can still access these assets, but it won’t be part of any settlement. Lawyers won’t tell you this, plus, by the time you start talking to them, it’s too late. Do it now if you’re fighting or having trouble at home. Just make sure that trusted friend or family member doesn’t have troubles of his or her own, otherwise you defeat the purpose, and you still lose control of your assets. Just be very, very careful when you do all of this, don’t have it blow up in your face.
Some good ideas here, but you guys should get a lawyer to post on here and give the real scoop. It’s interesting and entertaining to read peoples ideas, but this isn’t a topic for amateurs. You don’t approach this type of important business by taking advice off the internet…at least not unless it’s actually coming from an attorney writing it. That said, I like the ideas posted above….if they work. Pretty creative thinking. Definitely protect those assets, once you lose them they are tough to get back. Don’t lose them to some bitter old hen who thinks she’s entitled to every thing you ever worked for, and even if she’s not entitled to it will try to take it from you just for spite. Good luck, guys.
I’ve heard of success stories where men manage to place assets in safe structures, where they cannot be touched in a divorce. If all else fails, put it in cash and hide it somewhere. How do the mob guys manage to drive brand new cars and wear $2000 suits, but have no assets to their name. Let’s face it, most of those guys are NOT geniuses. If they can do it, a normal, middle class American male can certainly do it.
The tactics that some people recommend in nasty divorce cases are rather harsh and would in all likelihood result in more problems and ill feelings than anything gained particularly if children are involved. In my divorce everything was put out on the table and split accordingly. Could I have played some games, sure, but to what effect on the children. I hope down the road the kids will understand.
Jerry, your comments might be reasonable after the damage is done, i.e. if you already are heading towards divorce and you’ ve been married for a while, the assets are held jointly, etc….but I think some of this advice is relevant for some of the younger guys who may be reading this and not married yet. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If you’re young enough, but still have the potential to accumulate some assets, you really should look into the possibility of placing them somewhere, like in a corporate vehicle owned jointly with TRUSTED family or friends. Even though they really belong to you, keep up the appearance of not having strict control or legal possession of them. If you get married and things go well, you can still quietly draw from these assets and improve your standard of living for you and the wife/kids, but if things go bad, she can’t get her grubby mitts on them. You can still provide generously for your kids, but on YOUR terms…in other words, the power stays in your hands. The children still have all their needs met, education provided for, etc…but the biotch doesn’t get to live large on your dime. Not applicable for everyone, and if you don’t have assets, it doesn’t matter. But if you’re young, and you are able through investments or a good income to accumulate some wealth before marriage, think long and hard and get some serious advice before taking the plunge. If you’ve been burned once, don’t EVER enter into another marriage without taking these steps. Good luck.
I like what the guy said a few posts back about the mob guys. If life were only that simple. It's a good idea, but there are ramifications to having nothing in your name. First of all, you have to do all that before you are married, you can't become a non-person afterwards, since she would have a say in decisions. You would never be able to buy a house in your name, so unless you already own one, and have it in some sort of set-up you feel secure with, then you'll be renting forever. That's not really good financial strategy. And if you have a pension or any other asset that builds over time, you can't transfer that sort of asset to a corporation or trust. And if you have kids, you'll still have to pay child support, unless you only work off the books or have some great cash business. Even the mob guys don't get away with a lot of this stuff. If the ex wife doesn't get them, the IRS might.
Any lawyers out there? I could use some advice. I know the net and sites aren't the best place to get them, but before I retain a lawyer I would like to sift through all the information and figure outsome of my options. Not sure what I want to do yet, or what my next step should be, but I am really at my wits end with the marriage. The writing is all over the wall, but this is still a big step. I have a good job, and so does she. Kids are involved, so I'm sure it's going to cost me something. But how bad is it going to be? If I let her keep the house, do I get half the equity back? Is my child support counted towards the mortgage payment if I keep the house in my name? Lot of confusing questions here. Any help would be appreciated.
Ed, I'm not a lawyer, but I have experienced what you are going through. You really need to consult with a lawyer if divorce is iminent, just to make sure you are well protected. Another thing you can do is speak to some friends who just went through a divorce to relate to their experiences. You can seek out a mediator, but that will only work if your wife is willing to keep this cordial. But I would at least consult with an attorney first, to make sure you've covered all bases. If you have any assets you can safely transfer out of your name, do it, but be forewarned, if the divorce fight is nasty, then they could look back on those transactions and hold you accountable; i.e. they could be included in any settlement, and you would have to give half of the market value of those assets to your spouse. Very complicated, right before the marriage ends is not a good time to start moving assets around. If you can, don't put any more money into the bank then necessary. Keep cash in a safe place only you can access. Not in the house, and not a bank deposit box. Trusted family member, secret hiding place, wherever you can find. That's the one thing that can't be traced. As far as kids and child support, any money you show on your W2 is subject to a percentage, depending on how many children you have. If you have a way to make money off the books, now is the time to pursue that. Bottom line is, come to grips with the fact that it is going to cost you some money. Unless she is an unfit parent, she will be given custody of the children, and you will pay support. We should all band together and try to change that system, but right now it's the law. Good luck with everything, the people on this board know how you feel.
What’s the real deal with
What’s the real deal with pre-nups? I hear all different things, that they are not legally enforceable, or that they are more trouble than they are worth, and that they only give the woman a heads up that assets are out there for the taking. Also, is it at all practical to legally hide assets where they can’t be touched, like in familiy members names, etc? Somebody on this site used the example of mobsters, who never keep assets in their name, but lead pretty comfortable lives. Is that practical for the general population? Certain assets could never be hidden, I would think. Pensions? 401K’s? These are important questions that we need answers to.
Are there any lawyers out
Are there any lawyers out there who actually have a rep for actually winning cases favoring men? Seems no matter what the actual circumstances of a marriage, the woman makes out and the man pays. My wife was wrong every step of the way, nasty, verbally abusive, unfaithful, the whole bit. Truth is, getting out was worth whatever it took, but in a world of fairness, I shouldn’t lose money over any settlement, given the circumstances. Instead, she kept the house, and I lost a ton of equity, as well as lawyers fees and the other related expenses. I guess these judges traded their balls for a seat on the bench. Do these judges ever get divorced? And if they do, what kind of settlements do they obtain? Does the old boys network kick in and protect their interest, or do they get their heads handed to them like the rest of us? Curious to hear what other people have to say, and their experiences.
Is a pre-nup enforceable
Is a pre-nup enforceable regardless how long the marriage lasts. For instance if you sign a pre-nup stipulating all assets brought into the marriage and everything earned during the marriage are not joint, and you remain married 20 years,is the pre-nup still enforceable. I was badly burnt once and don’t want to have it happen again. It seems to me the woman is entitled to a larger percentage of the overall assets as the length of the marriage increases even if a pre-nup is in existence. Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me.
Great, great site. Been
Great, great site. Been looking through some of the articles and content, funny stuff. You guys could probably get a lawyer to come on here and give professional divorce advice. A lot of good anecdotal stories on here, but people have to be careful of taking other’s experiences and applying it to their own situation. But some of these stories are great. Good to know other people are going through the same crap you are.
Guy’s, be VERY careful before
Guy’s, be VERY careful before trying to be tricky, or just trying to outsmart the system in general. Lawyers and judges have seen any bright idea you can think of, and are a lot more experienced in this than you. Speak to a lawyer, and any friends who got divorced, and be guided by their experiences. From experience, I can say that anger and frustration can lead you to make rash decisions, and hurting her might seem like a higher priority than making a better deal for yourself. But the feeling of revenge fades pretty quickly, and ultimately dissolving a marriage is a business deal, albeit one packed with conflicting emotions. Even if you didn’t want the divorce, you owe it to yourself to make the best deal possible for yourself. If you were buying or selling a business or piece of property, you wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) let emotions impact your decisions. It might take all the self-discipline you can muster, but treat this the same. Pride tastes like $#!+ when you have to swallow it, but it goes away soon enough. Make the best deal for YOU, remember, living well is the best revenge.
If you don't have a prenup,
If you don't have a prenup, and you're having marital difficulites, try to see the split coming way off, and see if you can start moving assets legally. Put things in the name of other family members or trusted friends. (Make sure their marriages are stable first…lol). Or start a corporation with family members, and put assets in there if you can. Not always that easy, but a little forethought may really save you the bucks later.
Seems to me the best way to
Seems to me the best way to do things is either a pre-nup, or just put all your assets into some corporation or family trust before you ever get married. Keep your wifes name off everything after your married, if possible. But let’s face it, none of us ever have that much foresight when we’re young. Hopefully young people are reading this site too, and learning from the experience of the people who have lived it.
Ah, divorce tricks. Think
Ah, divorce tricks. Think thats a course they teach at law school? Seems like half the scheming that goes on in divorce cases are actually instigated by the lawyers, who lick their chops over this stuff. The bigger mess it is, the more billable hours it will take to clean it up.
Men, if you’re even thinking
Men, if you’re even thinking that your marriage is in trouble, start thinking clearly right away. Drop all the emotional baggage, and figure out what you have to do to preserve your assets. If you can legally and safely transfer some of them to a trusted family member, do it. Some things are tough to hide, like homes, pension plans, and the like. But other things can be fairly easily given away or “sold”. Got a boat? “Sell” it to your brother in law. You can still take it out on the weekends, but get it out of your name. Stocks or other investments? Start selling them off quietly, then “spend” the proceeds on seemingly legit things. In reality, have a trusted family member or friend set up another trading account, and re-invest. Once the dust clears, you can still access these assets, but it won’t be part of any settlement. Lawyers won’t tell you this, plus, by the time you start talking to them, it’s too late. Do it now if you’re fighting or having trouble at home. Just make sure that trusted friend or family member doesn’t have troubles of his or her own, otherwise you defeat the purpose, and you still lose control of your assets. Just be very, very careful when you do all of this, don’t have it blow up in your face.
Some good ideas here, but you
Some good ideas here, but you guys should get a lawyer to post on here and give the real scoop. It’s interesting and entertaining to read peoples ideas, but this isn’t a topic for amateurs. You don’t approach this type of important business by taking advice off the internet…at least not unless it’s actually coming from an attorney writing it. That said, I like the ideas posted above….if they work. Pretty creative thinking. Definitely protect those assets, once you lose them they are tough to get back. Don’t lose them to some bitter old hen who thinks she’s entitled to every thing you ever worked for, and even if she’s not entitled to it will try to take it from you just for spite. Good luck, guys.
I’ve heard of success stories
I’ve heard of success stories where men manage to place assets in safe structures, where they cannot be touched in a divorce. If all else fails, put it in cash and hide it somewhere. How do the mob guys manage to drive brand new cars and wear $2000 suits, but have no assets to their name. Let’s face it, most of those guys are NOT geniuses. If they can do it, a normal, middle class American male can certainly do it.
The tactics that some people
The tactics that some people recommend in nasty divorce cases are rather harsh and would in all likelihood result in more problems and ill feelings than anything gained particularly if children are involved. In my divorce everything was put out on the table and split accordingly. Could I have played some games, sure, but to what effect on the children. I hope down the road the kids will understand.
Jerry, your comments might be
Jerry, your comments might be reasonable after the damage is done, i.e. if you already are heading towards divorce and you’ ve been married for a while, the assets are held jointly, etc….but I think some of this advice is relevant for some of the younger guys who may be reading this and not married yet. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If you’re young enough, but still have the potential to accumulate some assets, you really should look into the possibility of placing them somewhere, like in a corporate vehicle owned jointly with TRUSTED family or friends. Even though they really belong to you, keep up the appearance of not having strict control or legal possession of them. If you get married and things go well, you can still quietly draw from these assets and improve your standard of living for you and the wife/kids, but if things go bad, she can’t get her grubby mitts on them. You can still provide generously for your kids, but on YOUR terms…in other words, the power stays in your hands. The children still have all their needs met, education provided for, etc…but the biotch doesn’t get to live large on your dime. Not applicable for everyone, and if you don’t have assets, it doesn’t matter. But if you’re young, and you are able through investments or a good income to accumulate some wealth before marriage, think long and hard and get some serious advice before taking the plunge. If you’ve been burned once, don’t EVER enter into another marriage without taking these steps. Good luck.
I like what the guy said a
I like what the guy said a few posts back about the mob guys. If life were only that simple. It's a good idea, but there are ramifications to having nothing in your name. First of all, you have to do all that before you are married, you can't become a non-person afterwards, since she would have a say in decisions. You would never be able to buy a house in your name, so unless you already own one, and have it in some sort of set-up you feel secure with, then you'll be renting forever. That's not really good financial strategy. And if you have a pension or any other asset that builds over time, you can't transfer that sort of asset to a corporation or trust. And if you have kids, you'll still have to pay child support, unless you only work off the books or have some great cash business. Even the mob guys don't get away with a lot of this stuff. If the ex wife doesn't get them, the IRS might.
Any lawyers out there? I
Any lawyers out there? I could use some advice. I know the net and sites aren't the best place to get them, but before I retain a lawyer I would like to sift through all the information and figure outsome of my options. Not sure what I want to do yet, or what my next step should be, but I am really at my wits end with the marriage. The writing is all over the wall, but this is still a big step. I have a good job, and so does she. Kids are involved, so I'm sure it's going to cost me something. But how bad is it going to be? If I let her keep the house, do I get half the equity back? Is my child support counted towards the mortgage payment if I keep the house in my name? Lot of confusing questions here. Any help would be appreciated.
Ed, I'm not a lawyer, but I
Ed, I'm not a lawyer, but I have experienced what you are going through. You really need to consult with a lawyer if divorce is iminent, just to make sure you are well protected. Another thing you can do is speak to some friends who just went through a divorce to relate to their experiences. You can seek out a mediator, but that will only work if your wife is willing to keep this cordial. But I would at least consult with an attorney first, to make sure you've covered all bases. If you have any assets you can safely transfer out of your name, do it, but be forewarned, if the divorce fight is nasty, then they could look back on those transactions and hold you accountable; i.e. they could be included in any settlement, and you would have to give half of the market value of those assets to your spouse. Very complicated, right before the marriage ends is not a good time to start moving assets around. If you can, don't put any more money into the bank then necessary. Keep cash in a safe place only you can access. Not in the house, and not a bank deposit box. Trusted family member, secret hiding place, wherever you can find. That's the one thing that can't be traced. As far as kids and child support, any money you show on your W2 is subject to a percentage, depending on how many children you have. If you have a way to make money off the books, now is the time to pursue that. Bottom line is, come to grips with the fact that it is going to cost you some money. Unless she is an unfit parent, she will be given custody of the children, and you will pay support. We should all band together and try to change that system, but right now it's the law. Good luck with everything, the people on this board know how you feel.